From Rock Bottom to Radiance: Kathy Love’s Self-Care Revolution
What happens when your entire world shatters—and you have to rebuild from scratch?
In this powerful episode, Kathy Love shares her journey from devastation to discovering the life-changing practices of self-care, boundaries, and radical self-worth. She opens up about the darkest chapter of her life and how it eventually became the catalyst for growth and healing.
Courtney and Kathy dive deep into codependency, the myths around self-care, and what it really means to step into your best self. Get ready for wisdom, honesty, and tools you can start using today.
Must-Hear Insights and Key Moments
Kathy shares how her first TED Talk happened just two weeks after her ex-husband went to prison.
Why self-care is not indulgent—it’s essential for survival and thriving.
The role of codependency in daily life, and how to recognize when it’s depleting you.
Practical examples of saying “no” with compassion while saying “yes” to yourself.
The power of retreats, community, and closing the gap between your best self and your daily life.
Kathy’s advice to her 18-year-old self: turn the energy you give others back toward yourself.
The importance of presence, deep breathing, and choosing to live in the now.
Words of Wisdom: Standout Quotes from This Episode
“Every time I hear you go through that list, Kathy, I just keep reflecting on myself.” - Courney Turich
“You were glowing today, and I see you living your best self, it makes my heart so full.” - Courney Turich
“You’ve helped me in so many ways, my friend, and it’s only the beginning of our friendship.” - Courney Turich
“I really hope this conversation helps everyone listening to start reflecting on themselves too.” - Courney Turich
“Please, go be bold, be confident, and be you.” - Courney Turich
“We are all codependent, what matters is when it starts depleting us.” - Kathy Love
“The healing doesn’t take as long as it took to learn all these unhealthy behaviors.” - Kathy Love
“Take the energy you give everyone else and spend it on yourself—you are enough right now.” - Kathy Love
“I don’t have to separate my work from self-care; it’s all part of who I am.” - Kathy Love
“Just take a breath—stay in the present moment where everything is just right.” - Kathy Love
About Kathy
Kathy Love is the Managing Editor at Outlier Magazine, and also the Chief Community Officer at The Outlier Project. Kathy is an author, self-care coach, Vice President at SomethingNew LLC, public speaker at TEDx, and the owner of Jack Saia LLC. Kathy is a business consultant and the founder/director of Ucan2, Inc. Kathy holds a certificate in Positive Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania and a Bachelor of Science in Education from State University of New York Cortland.
Follow Kathy Love
Stay Connected with Courtney Turich:
A Team Dklutr Production
BLOG TRANSCRIPT
Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies
Courtney Turich: Hey, it's your friend and host, Courtney Turich, and welcome to Bold Moves, Confident Choices, the podcast where we own our path, make fearless decisions, and get real about what it takes to turn bold ideas into reality. Today's guest is someone who's incredibly special to me, and it's someone I've only known for one year.
Yes, only one year, exactly this time last year. She is not only a friend, but is someone who's deeply influenced the way I think about self-care boundaries and showing up for myself. This woman I have come to find that I can tell her my deepest, darkest secret, and I know she's there to listen to support me, love, comfort me, but also help guide me to move past that.
This woman without further ado, is Kathy Love. She is the rare gift of holding up a mirror in the most compassionate way. Through our conversations, again, she has helped me realize just how often I put others first and how powerful it can be to reclaim your space, just like I'm doing for myself. Her wisdom has challenged me to reflect differently, to pause, and to grow.
Kathy is a two times TEDx speaker. Yes, that's what I said two times. Not once, but twice. She's the podcast host of my self-care shit and author self-care coach and the chief community officer for our community, I love the outlier project. It has truly become a second home for me with incredible people.
So I'm gonna stop talking and I cannot wait to introduce you to my amazing friend Kathy Love. Kathy, thank you so much for being here today.
Kathy Love: I wouldn't be anywhere else. I'm so happy to be here talking to you today.
Courtney Turich: Kathy, might I just add you are radiating today. You have this amazing glow about you. Did you do something special today?
Kathy Love: Well, right before this call I was teaching yoga on the beach in our town with a small group of women, it is the most magical place to practice yoga and breathe deeply and just set our intentions for the day of how we want it to be, and it really is a very, very energizing way to start the day.
Courtney Turich: Kathy, you walked right into everything I shared about you, how you helped me to even take that pause, to breathe, to just embrace the calmness so I can see.
Kathy Love: Yeah, you mentioned the mirror and that keeps coming up a lot for me in my own life about seeing things as being a mirror, a reflection back.
And what I wanted to say to you about that was that. One of the reasons that we connect and have become such great friends is because you're willing to see the reflection and then work with it. Some people will see the reflection and then they don't wanna look in the mirror anymore, or they don't like what they see, and then they shut it down.
But we can have these conversations on both sides. It's not just me to you, but both of us can mirror each other and then be willing to work with whatever it is we see to just get to a healthier version of that, and that's what I love about you.
Courtney Turich: I thank you so much, Kathy, and you're spot on. And that mirror is not always pretty, but we have a way of holding each other accountable and allowing ourselves space to work through. At those moments. So Kathy, before we jump into some big questions, you just share a little bit more about you?
Mirror Work & Morning Breath: How Kathy Finds Her Glow
Kathy Love: Well, I always start with the current, because I think that that is the most important place to start with is the present.
And my present is pretty good right now. Like you said, most of my time is spent either working. The outlier project or spending time with outliers who have become my best friends and cheerleaders and coaches and everything else in my life. And so it's a pretty good way to spend a day.
And I also have been coaching and self care and talking about self care, which. I love the fact that I don't have to separate those two things, that I can do everything that's important to me you know, in one way. I don't have to hide what I do from the outlier project. It's just all become a piece of it.
So. It hasn't always been this way. When we met last year, it was the 10 year anniversary of my first TED Talk, and that talk was given two weeks after my now ex-husband went to prison and my entire life had been blown apart. It was a life that I was very proud of and happy with. And, It was, you know, a lot of my dreams come true.
And so to lose everything financially, emotionally, all of our solid ground pulled out from underneath us created what I now see as learning opportunities. But like you said, it's not always pretty to look at and it was really, really ugly for a long time as I navigated and made a lot of mistakes and because I didn't have the tools, I wasn't handling things in the, the healthy way that I know now to handle things. So there's a lot.
Courtney Turich: Yeah, there's a lot to unpack here. And before we jump into the second part of what you just shared, can you tell the audience what the outlier project is?
From “Perfect Life” to FBI at the Door: Kathy’s Four-Year Storm
Kathy Love: The Outlier project really boils down to a group of people who are really passionate about learning through the events that we host, but also through each other, building these incredible relationships with amazing people who, as Scott always says, and Scott McGregors, who started the outlier project that I work closely with, he always says, we're not always like-minded, but we are always like-hearted.
And that is so true because we have members all over the world, have members of all ages, members who are in all different industries and back, you know, come from different backgrounds. So there is a lot of diversity in thought, but we're all people who are there to liive our best lives, support each other to do the same. And so the outlier project has all of these events and things that we do, but for me, it boils down to the people who are in it, which make it the really special community that it is.
Courtney Turich: Also just add to that, it has been extremely special for me over the past year and to really lean into all the incredible people that I have met. It's pretty amazing.
So let's now dive into the story that you just shared about after your first TED Talk. I wanna tell everybody, if you have not seen, Kathy loves Ted Talk. I want you to go watch it. We will make sure to have the link in the episode as well. But I will never forget when I went to go watch it myself, and I'm listening to Kathy talk and I'm like, this woman's got the perfect life.
Why am I listening to a TED Talk about the perfect life? It felt like it just went on and then all of a sudden, Kathy, like you shared your life flipped upside down in a minute.
Kathy Love: The minute the FBI left their business card on our front door. We came home one day and saw that, and that was the beginning of whole different life. That was the beginning everything, and that process took four years. So we went through four years of the investigation, the sentencing or the, you know, the charges, the sentencing, the actual time served, the time after that where he was on house arrest. We had three young kids at the time in their early teens.
And so house arrest was its own nightmare because he couldn't participate or take kids to sports or come to see their sports games and things like that. So for four solid years, it was just constant change and worry, loss, grief, all of the things that you can imagine when you lose everything you own. Money, house, cars, our community because we had to move to Buffalo, where my family was, where I grew up. So yeah, those four years were, that was when we lived in Buffalo. It was four years of devastation.
Celebrate the Space: How Loss Creates Room for New Life
Courtney Turich: Kathy, this is really heavy with what you went through and you've gone years of working through this process, but there's a lot of people right now in the world who are going through some really just, challenging moments in life.
What can you tell them to help guide or get them through at least this dark period? Is there anything you would recommend? Well, I remembered,
Kathy Love: At the time, you know, that was TV time and watching Oprah and, remembered seeing a guest of hers say that when their husband lost their job, that they celebrated with a, bottle of wine. It blew my mind. I couldn't imagine, you know, how she had that idea or perspective but she was celebrating the fact that although this phase in their life was ending, that something new was starting. And so I really adopted that from day one. That. Although we were losing our business, that I would get my husband back into our family, we would have more time together, and that although we were moving, that we would find new community.
And so I always used the perspective of not just what we're losing, but what it was making space for. Mm-hmm. And it made space for a lot of amazing things, including the lessons learned. And that's what I carry with me now, is that when things don't go the way we've planned them to or they go in a way that feels really devastating that there are always lessons to learn. There are opportunities to learn. And the biggest lessons I learned through that were about myself and the choices, well, that was the name of my Ted talk, the choices we make, but it really was about. choices in my relationships in how I handled them and how I showed up and how I was in denial of things that were happening because I was afraid of seeing that mirror seeing the truth, because once I saw it, I would have to decide, is this somewhere I wanna stay or is this somewhere I want, I need to leave.
And I find that a lot when I'm coaching is that. Denial can be our strongest defensive tool. It protects us and when we can come out of it and see it, we wonder how it was ever possible. But it really does protect us until we're ready to see the truth and handle and trust ourselves that we can handle it the way we need to.
Courtney Turich: I can so relate to that and such a powerful thought to think about when it comes, Toni to denial. Kathy, you've obviously gone through a lot in life. That's just one part of your story, Kathy, and I know you could talk even more about that and how it's helped you evolve to who you are now.
The Risk That Changed Everything: Choosing Growth Over Security
But I do wanna ask you, what would you say was that big, bold, pivotal moment in your life that has taken things to the next level for you professionally or personally?
Kathy Love: It is without a doubt. Going back to once, we were done with our stay in Buffalo and we were ready to come back to Connecticut, I was going to, I was coming back to Connecticut as a single mom, divorced with three kids, solely financially, emotionally responsible for them, and I had to decide what my next move was career wise.
And I had an offer from a company that is. very well known and established and had benefits, which is the one thing that I grew up that was instilled in me is, you know, to find out about the benefits. But I ended up choosing to go with a small startup with a one man band, and that ended up being Scott Reg.
I started working with him in something new, his, boutique recruiting company, and we've now been working together for nine years. The outlier project started maybe five and a half years or so ago, and working with him allowed me to get my family back to Connecticut for them to finish school where they had started and.
Personally, I was able to grow personally and professionally into what I have today with him and the outlier project. it's the life that I had written about in my dream life in 2012. I had written out. are many word for word sentences that are actually happening and true for me today that I could have only dreamt about at that time.
Courtney Turich: Kathy, how did you decide, or what was that deciding factor that made you go. With the small startup in Scott versus the more secure large company with benefits.
Kathy Love: So if you go back to that time and, and us just moving back to Connecticut and all of the, instability that we had gone through and in our lives, no one in my life was telling me to go with the startup.
Everyone I knew was telling me to go with what was sure and safe. There was something in my soul that just knew I could not be behind the desk nine to five in this corporate setting with the rules and regulations that come with it, that my personality is more creative and I needed a place where I could.
Be able to go to my kids' sports games, which was really important to me at the time, or go pick somebody up if they were sick from school. I needed flexibility. I really appreciated having that independence that I wouldn't have there, which reminded me of my very first job. I went to school to be a teacher, an elementary school teacher, and at that point I was given the choice of a public school with benefits and safety and security or a small independent school, and I chose the independent school.
And again, one of the best decisions I ever made. I grew up and became who I am in that school. While I was teaching the kids. I have a quote On a little brick that I bought for a school fundraiser, but it says I learned as much as I taught. that is so true because I had the autonomy to come up with curriculum and I had the ability to be the teacher that I knew I wanted to be in a classroom without all of those rules and regulations.
It was very similar to coming and working with Scott. Outlier project and something new because I knew that I was going to have a voice and be able to be a part of the company.
How Writing and Self-Reflection Led to Healing Codependency
Courtney Turich: Kathy, you talk about this journaling process as you're going through all these different times in your life, or that big moment in your life that helped guide you to where you are.
Also with Scott McGregor and the Outlier Project and something new did that start?
Kathy Love: The journal I, I have journaled my entire life. I've found journalists from when I was really young, you know, elementary school on, on and off, not consistently all of the years. I tend to journal more when things are difficult than when they're going well.
And I just picked up my journal this morning actually, when I was down at the beach and I realized I hadn't written in a few weeks and lots of great things have been happening and I relied on my journal to take the swirling worries and thoughts that were repeating and just creating all of this anxiety in my mind.
I used the journal to write them down, take them out of my head, put them on paper. In a linear fashion so that I can actually see them and I can decide if some of them are completely, not worthy of any attention and they were just up there and they got jumbled in. I can see where I need to prioritize.
from doing the artist's way, is probably where the real journaling came in the Artist's Way by Julia Cameron. it's based on the 12 steps. It's not for artists, but it's for someone who wants to live in their creativeness in their life. And she said, I work with stay at home moms and incarcerated prisoners.
So it works with anybody. it really did work with me in a sense of getting in touch with myself and what I love to do. this journaling process became a magical. experience where I would write down a question or something I was struggling with and the answer would come out and, it was where I was manifesting by writing down the things that I truly wanted to see happening in my life.
when you start to write those things down over and over, I want peace, I want stability, I wanna spend more time reading whatever it is it does. Remind you that those are things that are important to you and, choices become easier it to go in those directions. So the, the journal has been my number one tool for self-care for many, many years.
Courtney Turich: And to the audience, Kathy has shared aspects of her journal with me in the past, and it's unbelievable to see some of the things that she has written down. Have come true.
Kathy Love: I could go on forever, even in my workbook. When I published my workbook, I sat down and wrote out examples just so that people knew, you know, as a guideline.
And even in doing that, some of those things happened to come true within the year. And yeah, I really do believe in writing as a very spiritual practice.
Courtney Turich: I've always told myself I'm going to do it more, or I'm going to get in, you know, into the habit. And I'll admit, Kathy, I struggle. But when I do, it's to your point, it's powerful, but I am having a hard time staying consistent and committed. Any recommendations?
Kathy Love: I keep my journal out, which is, can be a scary thing, because obviously we don't want anyone reading it, but I do keep my journal out so that it, is there and a reminder to pick it up in the morning. So it's my coffee, my journal. those two things go together in the morning and one thing that I learned from Julia Cameron was that when I'm struggling with what to write, I write, I'm struggling with what to write today.
Courtney Turich: Okay.
Kathy Love: And as soon as the pen hits the paper and just anything comes out, even if it is, I don't know what to write today, the next thing will come out. And it seems to be a prompt that opens it.
Courtney Turich: That right there is already extremely helpful for me. So all this that you've gone through. Kathy, you talk a lot about codependency. And why is codependency at the forefront for you and something that you talk about with so many others?
Kathy Love: I was first introduced to the book, codependent No More by a therapist early in my marriage. Many, many years ago, and I took it, as a suggestion and I started to read it. And it did not mean a thing to me.
I didn't understand it. It read like a textbook to me. it didn't make any sense at all because I wasn't understanding I didn't really understand what codependency was. So. I dropped it and I really never looked at it again. When I started to go through what I went through 10 years ago, for the first, I would say five years, I really held on tightly.
I held on to the things that, I had been used to emotionally, physically, whatever it was, I was really just holding on tight for it to be over, for it to finally end for us to get to the finish line. And so there were, I would say, days, but that's a real under. Exaggeration. there were so many times where I would have to just fling myself out of bed and push through the day.
I would be, you know, on calls. I'd get off the call, I would sob, I'd wipe my tears, I'd get on the next call. I was pushing myself through the mess eventually. As things happen and at that time when I was pushing, I was distracting, so I was drinking too much. I was going on unhealthy dates with unhealthy people, but anything to distract me from what was actually happening and finally ended up in a relationship that taught me about it was so unhealthy.
That it made me completely stop in my tracks and question why? Why this was the choice I was making. Why it hurt so bad to have someone I knew was a terrible person. Reject me. Why would that bother me? Why wasn't I happy that I was being released from this relationship? And so in looking at that, I realized it wasn't that person at all.
It was my attachment, to wanting someone so desperately to want me to prove that I was worthy to tell me I was beautiful, to make me feel safe to come in and rescue me. Those were the things that I was having such a hard time with letting go, and those were the signs of codependency. That all of a sudden made so much sense because I was so disconnected from my true self that I was looking for someone else to give me all those things.
I wasn't. Believing that I was beautiful or talented or worthy or capable of caring for myself. I didn't trust myself enough to make decisions to do what I needed to do. I didn't have strong boundaries, so I let people take advantage and then I felt taken advantage of. and so When I finally put the pieces together, I dove right into it and I did all kinds of work and healing on myself.
And then a friend of mine who is a therapist, who specialized in toxic relationships had watched me heal and had been a part of that process. And seeing my evolution and during COVID when, his, social media and everything took off because he was talking about these toxic relationships and a lot of people were faced with the reality.
Again, the denial was gone. When you were stuck in a house with someone, there wasn't anywhere to hide anymore. There wasn't a way to escape. And so the reality. For some people was that they were in an unhealthy relationship, so he was inundated with calls and clients, and he asked me if I would step in and do some group coaching.
on and around toxic relationships. But I said, if I'm going to do that, I have to focus on the solution, on the good part of it. Because the great news when you figure it out is that this whole healthy life is just there waiting for you. So it's really a celebration. It's like, okay, yes. The denial finally lifted.
Now I can see it. Now I can make some changes. Now I can make different choices. Now I can create the world I wanna live in. The peace and stability I'm craving. And that is how it started. And then it's just evolved from there.
Breaking Free from Codependency: Kathy Love’s Lessons on Self-Worth
Courtney Turich: So Kathy, I do wanna ask you, on your second TED talk, you talk about all these questions to ask yourself about if you're codependent. Can you just run through a few of those? Because that was where my light bulbs went off and I, was sitting there listening to you. Oh my gosh. I am super codependent.
Kathy Love: Well, first of all, we are all codependent.
We are all on a spectrum of codependency and sometimes in different situations we are closer to one side or the other. And there is nothing wrong with being codependent. a lot of our behaviors are helpful and caring and we're doing for other people, and so they're really good things, which is sometimes why we're not made aware of them.
But it's to when we. Are helping and giving to the point where we're depleting ourselves and so we're taking care of everyone else and we're focused on what everyone else needs, we're just going and going and going without ever considering. What we need or what we want, or if we need a rest or a break.
Because in our minds we're saying, well, they need us. They need us. Well, in reality, we need us to take care of ourself first so that we can take care of everyone else. so some of those things are just looking at the decisions we're making. Are we saying yes to an event because we don't wanna hurt their feelings, but we're exhausted and we really just need to be home and in bed.
Rest. are we saying yes to helping someone financially when we're having trouble paying our own bills, but yet we're willing to give it because they need it again? Well, we need it first so that we can stay stable and be able to help other people. it's looking outside of ourselves for validation.
So if we meet someone and they aren't our biggest fan, do we take that personally and wonder what's wrong with us? Or do we just realize that maybe they're having a bad day? Maybe they, not, maybe they absolutely are coming to us with their own set of. What they like and what they don't like, and it has nothing to do with us.
So it's looking outside for validation or, sometimes at work, it's certain achievements, it's certain, degrees or licenses or certificates to make us feel like we're finally worth listening to.
Courtney Turich: Every time I hear you go through that list, Kathy, I continue to just keep reflecting and reflecting and reflecting on myself. So I really hope this has helped everybody listening to also do the same for themselves. Kathy, what would you tell your 18-year-old self today?
Kathy Love: I would tell her to take all of the energy that she spends thinking about other people and caring for other people, and to spend it on herself. To start learning about herself, connecting to herself emotionally, physically, like through exercise and yoga and things where we're connecting to our bodies and paying attention to how we feel.
really just bringing the focus that's on everything outside, back inside, because that's where we find. That we are enough. And that's where we find our own value. It's where we are able to look in the mirror and be okay with what we see. without the judgment, the fear, not feeling good enough. So I would tell our short story, you're good enough right now, and long story is to really spend some time.
Yourself,
Courtney Turich: Kathy, I have to share with everybody, even over the past year that I've known you, I've heard your story, and you just continue to just thrive more and more all the time. Like you were glowing today and I see that you are just living your best self, Kathy, and it. Makes my heart so full to see my friend living, practicing everything she preaches to everyone else.
Thank you.
Kathy Love: And you are such a part of that, Courtney, you know. Thank you. We met each other at the retreat last year at this time, and we had a long conversation. I'll never forget it, A long conversation after the retreat when I was really questioning I had seen my best self at that retreat and I had felt it and I felt like I was glowing then.
But when I came home, I didn't feel the same way. And I called you and I said, was I faking it?
I don't understand. How could I be so like this there and then come home and just not feel it anymore? And so you and I really talked that out. And I was able to figure out some of the differences between being at the retreat and then being home.
And then I just closed the gap. And some of it was things that I was telling myself. Some of it was just organizing my space physically, but I was able to close the gap and get to feel like that best version of myself and then stay there. And you in that conversation were really, really helpful in helping me see that.
Thank you.
Courtney Turich: You are so welcome and back at you. You've helped me in so many ways, my friend, and it's still only the beginning of our friendship and I, I cannot wait to see how it continues and evolves over the year, years, years, not year years. Yes. Kathy, where can people find
Kathy Love: you? My self-care shit.com is my website, and that has links to my Ted talks, my books, and my social media.
So, I'm on LinkedIn, Instagram, I'm all over the place, so it should be easy to find me my self-care shit. When helping people get their self-care shit together, make it fun. Make it something that we can smile about and not take too seriously. and just know that the healing from all of this doesn't take as long as it took for us to learn all these unhealthy behaviors.
And, and it can be fun along the way.
Courtney Turich: Kathy, I was getting ready to ask if there is anything else you wanted to leave us with, but that sounded really darn good right there. If you do have anything else you wanna share, bring it on. My friend.
Kathy Love: I have to end with just taking a breath and just taking a breath and staying in the present moment.
And that's what we did at our yoga class this morning. We all. Woke up with ideas and thoughts of the things that we needed to do today, and so taking that deep breath just puts everything from the past behind us and keeps everything from the future at bay and we can just breathe and be in this present moment where everything is just right.
Courtney Turich: Kathy, thank you so much for being here today and sharing with us all your story. And how we can start putting ourselves first. Thank you to my audience. Please go be bold, be confident, and be you. Thanks
